Roster/Staff Updates

[AppSt94]

Why on earth are we not going heavy with quality FCS players as a feeder for our roster? Maybe (probably) I know nothing (like 99% of the experts on this board) but it seems more logical to get good FCS proven players over P4 bench guys. We are clearly a minor league club for P4’s so why not look a level below us and get 15-20 dudes every year who have actually played and can produce day 1?

I don’t think it’s for lack of trying; there’s more competition for FCS players nowadays.

As much competition as there is there are a lot of quality FCS and D2 players who are set to return to their schools that we did not try to get into the portal. Clark did not hit the small schools as hard as I think we should have and so far this group is not as well. If I thought that our staff would actually look into the names I would give them a long list to recruit but I don't think they would.

How do you know that they didn’t evaluate them? How do you know anything? You freely assume that you know better than those that do it for a living? Bro stick to your day job, if you have one…….

I did not say we did not look at those names but that I simply am not confident that some of their egos would seriously listen to names and then dig into them because myself or any of us tells them about the names.

I would assume that if a FCS player has a ton of G6 offers and a few P4 offers but we did not offer that we likely did not evaluate them. I know of one player that has happened because I know the NIL agent and he said App never showed any interest. I'm sure that player was not the only one.

LOL. You spend way more time on the boards than I do so not sure how you can make cracks about if someone has a job.

Come on Josh. You absolutely said that we didn’t go after these guys that you feel were worthy of looks.You make wild, baseless assertions and then back pedal when challenged. You know of ONE guy that App wasn’t interested in so therefore the staff can’t evaluate the proper talent. Maybe he wasn’t a position of need. Maybe we were full in that position. Maybe they weren’t interested because he wasn’t worth the look. You are clueless with what actually goes which is made worse by your over inflated opinion of your abilities in the space so you assume that you know better. It’s pretty clear that your issue is that you just want to be heard for your “expertise” but no one wants to listen.

I actually have a great job that pays me 6 figures. I can post on here and still be a productive member of society.

[BambooRdApp]

Come on 94, you are taking all the verbiage out of context

[Bootsy]

I don’t think it’s for lack of trying; there’s more competition for FCS players nowadays.

As much competition as there is there are a lot of quality FCS and D2 players who are set to return to their schools that we did not try to get into the portal. Clark did not hit the small schools as hard as I think we should have and so far this group is not as well. If I thought that our staff would actually look into the names I would give them a long list to recruit but I don't think they would.

How do you know that they didn’t evaluate them? How do you know anything? You freely assume that you know better than those that do it for a living? Bro stick to your day job, if you have one…….

You certainly mean well, 94. But you’re wasting your time here.

He has delusions of adequacy. But the guy’s takes are so consistently wrong, it’s like he isn’t even trying.

You do realize there are different ways to assemble a roster? Loggains could be doing it the right way but we will find out this fall. The only thing I am critical of him on right now is I don't think he has put as much financial resources into hiring good evaluators but I hope he proves he does not need to.

Which take do I have that I am consistently wrong on? If you can give me facts that proves it is wrong then I will admit that. If you just disagree with an opinion then that is your opinion. Just because we don't completely agree does not make you or me dumb. It is okay to have a different view.

Yes, it’s perfectly fine to have a different view. We do live in America, after all. My observation is that you feel compelled to respond to nearly every posting on this board, as if you’re some sort of expert or journalist with a burning need to foist his opinions on the world, 24/7.

You asked for an example, so here’s one: you claim Loggains and his staff did a poor job of evaluating available portal talent at the FCS level. Prove it.

Have you played football competitively and/or coached at any level? What are your credentials, experience and contacts that lead you to confidently toss out recriminations like this one?

You can answer that question yourself.

[AppStFan1]

I don’t think it’s for lack of trying; there’s more competition for FCS players nowadays.

As much competition as there is there are a lot of quality FCS and D2 players who are set to return to their schools that we did not try to get into the portal. Clark did not hit the small schools as hard as I think we should have and so far this group is not as well. If I thought that our staff would actually look into the names I would give them a long list to recruit but I don't think they would.

How do you know that they didn’t evaluate them? How do you know anything? You freely assume that you know better than those that do it for a living? Bro stick to your day job, if you have one…….

I did not say we did not look at those names but that I simply am not confident that some of their egos would seriously listen to names and then dig into them because myself or any of us tells them about the names.

I would assume that if a FCS player has a ton of G6 offers and a few P4 offers but we did not offer that we likely did not evaluate them. I know of one player that has happened because I know the NIL agent and he said App never showed any interest. I'm sure that player was not the only one.

LOL. You spend way more time on the boards than I do so not sure how you can make cracks about if someone has a job.

Come on Josh. You absolutely said that we didn’t go after these guys that you feel were worthy of looks.You make wild, baseless assertions and then back pedal when challenged. You know of ONE guy that App wasn’t interested in so therefore the staff can’t evaluate the proper talent. Maybe he wasn’t a position of need. Maybe we were full in that position. Maybe they weren’t interested because he wasn’t worth the look. You are clueless with what actually goes which is made worse by your over inflated opinion of your abilities in the space so you assume that you know better. It’s pretty clear that your issue is that you just want to be heard for your “expertise” but no one wants to listen.

I actually have a great job that pays me 6 figures. I can post on here and still be a productive member of society.

I did not see offers or interest reported but our record over the last several years shows that maybe many of the players we signed turned out not to be good. We had a lot of transfers come in that were complete busts.

The player I am talking about this year was first-team All-Conference and an All-American. Maybe he is not good enough for us but he has interest from other pier schools so it just surprised me that we did not. This is a new staff and I am going to trust them until they have had a fair amount of time and proven they can't win.

This all started because you said we can't afford to increase the pay in recruiting to go after experienced evaluators and I just pointed out that we could have merged some roles and done so. This is the biggest coaching staff that we have ever had and we are spending more money than ever before so I just hope it pans out for us.

I never said you don't but implying that with others simply because they are active is kind of ironic since you have a good job and you post often. I'm not sure why you have to make personal attacks with folks.

[Bigdaddyg1]

Can any resident expert here generate a legit list of portal players (mostly good FCS) that we made offers to but turned us down? I seriously doubt this gets answered intelligently but I asked. Lots of random responses and needless arguments but very little substance (like always). Basically I seriously doubt anyone can really answer this question because ultimately nobody here really is privy to the inside information.

[AppStFan1]

As much competition as there is there are a lot of quality FCS and D2 players who are set to return to their schools that we did not try to get into the portal. Clark did not hit the small schools as hard as I think we should have and so far this group is not as well. If I thought that our staff would actually look into the names I would give them a long list to recruit but I don't think they would.

How do you know that they didn’t evaluate them? How do you know anything? You freely assume that you know better than those that do it for a living? Bro stick to your day job, if you have one…….

You certainly mean well, 94. But you’re wasting your time here.

He has delusions of adequacy. But the guy’s takes are so consistently wrong, it’s like he isn’t even trying.

You do realize there are different ways to assemble a roster? Loggains could be doing it the right way but we will find out this fall. The only thing I am critical of him on right now is I don't think he has put as much financial resources into hiring good evaluators but I hope he proves he does not need to.

Which take do I have that I am consistently wrong on? If you can give me facts that proves it is wrong then I will admit that. If you just disagree with an opinion then that is your opinion. Just because we don't completely agree does not make you or me dumb. It is okay to have a different view.

Yes, it’s perfectly fine to have a different view. We do live in America, after all. My observation is that you feel compelled to respond to nearly every posting on this board, as if you’re some sort of expert or journalist with a burning need to foist his opinions on the world, 24/7.

You asked for an example, so here’s one: you claim Loggains and his staff did a poor job of evaluating available portal talent at the FCS level. Prove it.

Have you played football competitively and/or coached at any level? What are your credentials, experience and contacts that lead you to confidently toss out recriminations like this one?

You can answer that question yourself.

Not at all. I will respond to anyone who responds to me but I don't reply to most posts in this thread or on the board.

My general claims are how we did prior to Loggains but I mentioned one player because I was asked how I know we did not now. With the low budget I would imagine we don't see everyone and will have misses. When I don't see any reported interest in players who go to equal or lesser programs and turn out to be star players then it makes me wonder if we did.

The ultimate judge on how a staff does is if they win games. AppSt94 is the one who has said he does not think Loggains is the right guy but I have said I think he needs at least 3 years. We have spent more money than ever before and he made a lot of changes so we will see if it works out. I just thought we could have used an increase in recruiting/personnel but he focused it elsewhere. Hopefully it works out and he proves he did not need more experience in those roles.

[AppStFan1]

Can any resident expert here generate a legit list of portal players (mostly good FCS) that we made offers to but turned us down? I seriously doubt this gets answered intelligently but I asked. Lots of random responses and needless arguments but very little substance (like always). Basically I seriously doubt anyone can really answer this question because ultimately nobody here really is privy to the inside information.

I am going off the reported offers on 247. Moose does a great job of compiling them but maybe over the last several years there are a lot we offered who never posted about it or that Moose overlooked. I think you misread what I meant though. I was talking about players that we did not offer but could be good enough for us to offer. I could put together a list of those names if you are curious. I would not include Ivy League players though because they stay until they get a degree before they transfer, for obvious reasons.

[BUTCH1991]

The big question here is, have we had any roster or staff updates or just more pissing wars?

[Stonewall]

The big question her is, have we had any roster or staff updates or just more pissing wars?

No joke.

[Seattleapp]

The ultimate judge on how a staff does is if they win games. AppSt94 is the one who has said he does not think Loggains is the right guy but I have said I think he needs at least 3 years. We have spent more money than ever before and he made a lot of changes so we will see if it works out. I just thought we could have used an increase in recruiting/personnel but he focused it elsewhere. Hopefully it works out and he proves he did not need more experience in those roles.
[/quote]

Here’s the problem with this thinking as I see it. You kinda can’t have it both ways. This is what happens when you hire a career meddling assistant and make him a first time head coach at a time when results are needed sooner than later. We don’t have the luxury of hoping he’ll figure it out in 4 or 5 years. I agree in theory with the idea of finding lower lever diamonds in the rough. But if we faceplant this season which is a very real possibility with this staff, I don’t know what the point would be of throwing even more money at Loggains the following season, hoping THAT new roster is the one that clicks. There are a million variables to this and you are correct. It comes down to winning games. Loggains is getting guys he thinks will help him do that. We’ll see if he’s successful this season. If not, it falls on him and his abilities or lack there of. No point in worrying about who he should have recruited instead.

[AppStFan1]

The ultimate judge on how a staff does is if they win games. AppSt94 is the one who has said he does not think Loggains is the right guy but I have said I think he needs at least 3 years. We have spent more money than ever before and he made a lot of changes so we will see if it works out. I just thought we could have used an increase in recruiting/personnel but he focused it elsewhere. Hopefully it works out and he proves he did not need more experience in those roles.

Here’s the problem with this thinking as I see it. You kinda can’t have it both ways. This is what happens when you hire a career meddling assistant and make him a first time head coach at a time when results are needed sooner than later. We don’t have the luxury of hoping he’ll figure it out in 4 or 5 years. I agree in theory with the idea of finding lower lever diamonds in the rough. But if we faceplant this season which is a very real possibility with this staff, I don’t know what the point would be of throwing even more money at Loggains the following season, hoping THAT new roster is the one that clicks. There are a million variables to this and you are correct. It comes down to winning games. Loggains is getting guys he thinks will help him do that. We’ll see if he’s successful this season. If not, it falls on him and his abilities or lack there of. No point in worrying about who he should have recruited instead.
[/quote]

What you said is my concern and I have said before that if we don't see results this year I would be all for redirecting money to basketball or a sport that shows promise of success. I am sincerely hoping things go well for Loggains.

I do understand why Loggains wants full control. I wondered if he saw that staffers potentially let Clark down and he wanted full control thinking that if he fails he wants it to be on him and not others?

[ASUFan4863]

The ultimate judge on how a staff does is if they win games. AppSt94 is the one who has said he does not think Loggains is the right guy but I have said I think he needs at least 3 years. We have spent more money than ever before and he made a lot of changes so we will see if it works out. I just thought we could have used an increase in recruiting/personnel but he focused it elsewhere. Hopefully it works out and he proves he did not need more experience in those roles.

Here’s the problem with this thinking as I see it. You kinda can’t have it both ways. This is what happens when you hire a career meddling assistant and make him a first time head coach at a time when results are needed sooner than later. We don’t have the luxury of hoping he’ll figure it out in 4 or 5 years. I agree in theory with the idea of finding lower lever diamonds in the rough. But if we faceplant this season which is a very real possibility with this staff, I don’t know what the point would be of throwing even more money at Loggains the following season, hoping THAT new roster is the one that clicks. There are a million variables to this and you are correct. It comes down to winning games. Loggains is getting guys he thinks will help him do that. We’ll see if he’s successful this season. If not, it falls on him and his abilities or lack there of. No point in worrying about who he should have recruited instead.

What you said is my concern and I have said before that if we don't see results this year I would be all for redirecting money to basketball or a sport that shows promise of success. I am sincerely hoping things go well for Loggains.

I do understand why Loggains wants full control. I wondered if he saw that staffers potentially let Clark down and he wanted full control thinking that if he fails he wants it to be on him and not others?
[/quote]

1. The Appalachian State Athletics brand and financial strength is tied to football. The basketball program has little to no national recognition or weight compared to the football program. To be honest, it has very little recognition within our own fanbase. Same goes for baseball. Redirecting funds away from your cash cow that attracts 30k fans to an unknown commodity that attracts 800 fans would be a terrible decision.

2. Staffers didn’t let Clark down. The staffers went after exactly who they were told to target - “App Guys”.

3. Loggains wanting control over recruiting is nothing nefarious. It’s his strength. Why would you not want to be heavily involved in what you consider your strength?

[AppStFan1]

The ultimate judge on how a staff does is if they win games. AppSt94 is the one who has said he does not think Loggains is the right guy but I have said I think he needs at least 3 years. We have spent more money than ever before and he made a lot of changes so we will see if it works out. I just thought we could have used an increase in recruiting/personnel but he focused it elsewhere. Hopefully it works out and he proves he did not need more experience in those roles.

Here’s the problem with this thinking as I see it. You kinda can’t have it both ways. This is what happens when you hire a career meddling assistant and make him a first time head coach at a time when results are needed sooner than later. We don’t have the luxury of hoping he’ll figure it out in 4 or 5 years. I agree in theory with the idea of finding lower lever diamonds in the rough. But if we faceplant this season which is a very real possibility with this staff, I don’t know what the point would be of throwing even more money at Loggains the following season, hoping THAT new roster is the one that clicks. There are a million variables to this and you are correct. It comes down to winning games. Loggains is getting guys he thinks will help him do that. We’ll see if he’s successful this season. If not, it falls on him and his abilities or lack there of. No point in worrying about who he should have recruited instead.

What you said is my concern and I have said before that if we don't see results this year I would be all for redirecting money to basketball or a sport that shows promise of success. I am sincerely hoping things go well for Loggains.

I do understand why Loggains wants full control. I wondered if he saw that staffers potentially let Clark down and he wanted full control thinking that if he fails he wants it to be on him and not others?

1. The Appalachian State Athletics brand and financial strength is tied to football. The basketball program has little to no national recognition or weight compared to the football program. To be honest, it has very little recognition within our own fanbase. Same goes for baseball. Redirecting funds away from your cash cow that attracts 30k fans to an unknown commodity that attracts 800 fans would be a terrible decision.

2. Staffers didn’t let Clark down. The staffers went after exactly who they were told to target - “App Guys”.

3. Loggains wanting control over recruiting is nothing nefarious. It’s his strength. Why would you not want to be heavily involved in what you consider your strength?
[/quote]

That is true about the brand but I would think we would want to do something to give basketball more money if football does not bounce back to see what Kerns can do with proper funding.

The App guys they think they went after turned out to be a lot of misses. If they got the right guys then Loggains would not be here.

I never said it was nefarious. I don't blame Loggains for wanting to be involved in recruiting. He is very good at closing the deal. Every coach has positions they do a better job of evaluating so I just thought maybe he would have wanted vets to help with the others and to widen the net. He made a lot of changes and I am hopeful they are the correct ones.

Do you expect us to win 8+ games this year? I feel like the league is wide open so if we got good players that we should be able to do so.

[ASUFan4863]

For everyone’s sake, yes I do believe we should win 8 games. There are some who are unhappy and are looking for a reason to push for another change. I don’t agree with that so soon, but I can’t ignore it.

[Bigdaddyg1]

Over the past 5 years how many G5’s have averaged 8 wins in football and averaged finishing in the top (say) 5 in their conference in basketball and baseball? Threw in baseball for whatever but mainly the first 2. I’m looking for the most consistent winners at our level over the period.

[AppStFan1]

For everyone’s sake, yes I do believe we should win 8 games. There are some who are unhappy and are looking for a reason to push for another change. I don’t agree with that so soon, but I can’t ignore it.

I am with you on not pushing for change too early. He definitely needs 3 years unless we don't show any improvement or take a step backwards. I wonder if the folks looking for reason to make a change so early are those who just did not want to get rid of Clark or what has motivated them to want a change so quick?

[Stonewall]

For everyone’s sake, yes I do believe we should win 8 games. There are some who are unhappy and are looking for a reason to push for another change. I don’t agree with that so soon, but I can’t ignore it.

I am with you on not pushing for change too early. He definitely needs 3 years unless we don't show any improvement or take a step backwards. I wonder if the folks looking for reason to make a change so early are those who just did not want to get rid of Clark or what has motivated them to want a change so quick?

Losing. And with style. Plus his lack of involvement in the community, including the campus. That’s my take on it.

[AppStFan1]

Over the past 5 years how many G5’s have averaged 8 wins in football and averaged finishing in the top (say) 5 in their conference in basketball and baseball? Threw in baseball for whatever but mainly the first 2. I’m looking for the most consistent winners at our level over the period.

I believe Tulane, UTSA, Boise State, Fresno State, Toledo, Ohio, and Western Kentucky have done it. Does anyone know if I am missing anyone?

[AppStFan1]

For everyone’s sake, yes I do believe we should win 8 games. There are some who are unhappy and are looking for a reason to push for another change. I don’t agree with that so soon, but I can’t ignore it.

I am with you on not pushing for change too early. He definitely needs 3 years unless we don't show any improvement or take a step backwards. I wonder if the folks looking for reason to make a change so early are those who just did not want to get rid of Clark or what has motivated them to want a change so quick?

Losing. And with style. Plus his lack of involvement in the community, including the campus. That’s my take on it.

He did fall a little short of what I hoped but I feel like that has to be forgiven in year one. I can understand people wanting instant improvement. The other stuff is petty, in my opinion. It is one of those things people bring up if he loses this year but if he wins they won't really care so much.

[Stonewall]

The other stuff creates unnecessary tension and alienation. Win and it certainly becomes less of an issue.